tumblebird
Nov 28, 11:30 PM
That Doug Morris is a slimeball. Who's to say I even own any Universal music. I listen to Indie, primarily. I buy all my music, most of it on CD which I digitize, or via the iTunes Music Store. Who is Universal to demand my dollar? Or three for that matter, one for each iPod I have purchased. There are a lot of labels out there. They can't all get a portion. Apple owes them NOTHING. Did they get music from Sony for the Walkman? How many of us listened to mix tapes from friends on those? I know that most of my tapes were mixes from records and CDs. Universal is off base and greedy. Don't let this happen, Mr. Steve Jobs! You're in the right.
ThaDoggg
Apr 11, 12:14 PM
Personally I'm in no rush to upgrade as I still have some time on my contract. With that said, I would rather have Apple take their time and put out a quality product. Lately we've seen some issues with recent releases and it would be great if Apple could go back to making high quality products.
littleman23408
Dec 3, 03:03 PM
Do you get a prize car for finishing a series in Aspec races with all gold? Like I just need to finish one more race, but I can't find a used car to get into it. It's the first series of races, beginner I am assuming.
SC68Cal
Sep 19, 12:49 AM
im glad i bought just the other day, itll be within the 14 day return period. i know some people have said they are able to get the restocking fee waived. any tips on this?
I'm almost tempted if they come out with a Merom update. I purchased mine yesterday so I might be in the 14 day period. But, do I really feel like setting up all my stuff all over again? for a 10% increase in speed?
I'm almost tempted if they come out with a Merom update. I purchased mine yesterday so I might be in the 14 day period. But, do I really feel like setting up all my stuff all over again? for a 10% increase in speed?
Machead III
Sep 19, 11:52 AM
lolol did you see Steve? He invented MacTop. new laptoP.
rofl. it is g5
rofl. it is g5
TrollToddington
Apr 6, 03:17 PM
Both machines would be fine, though the 13"/15" MacBook Pro is more fully-featured of a machine than the Air, and frankly at that cost, why pay for an incomplete system?
With a 13" or 15" MacBook Pro, there's little practical use for a MacBook Air unless you have a problem lifting the two extra pounds, and really, if you do, either exercise or invest in physical therapy.
Disagree, the Air is a niche product, and there is a noticeable difference in weight. 2KG 13" Pro is exactly 50% heavier than 1.3KG Air, and if you lug the laptop around all day long such weight difference is noticeable. It might be added that most Air users are never gonna need the extra computing power of the MBP. If your work requires a MBP you're never going to get an Air anyway.
I am going even further - I like the featherweight of the 11" and the fact that after the update it is going to be a very serious machine is not to be neglected.
Last but not least, those 2 pounds you're talking about can be crucial when deciding what to take in your hand luggage when traveling by plane. I've been up to such a decision when I had to take my 2.8kg PC laptop. That's where I guess the name of the computer comes from - Macbook Air, designed for use on an Airplane.
With a 13" or 15" MacBook Pro, there's little practical use for a MacBook Air unless you have a problem lifting the two extra pounds, and really, if you do, either exercise or invest in physical therapy.
Disagree, the Air is a niche product, and there is a noticeable difference in weight. 2KG 13" Pro is exactly 50% heavier than 1.3KG Air, and if you lug the laptop around all day long such weight difference is noticeable. It might be added that most Air users are never gonna need the extra computing power of the MBP. If your work requires a MBP you're never going to get an Air anyway.
I am going even further - I like the featherweight of the 11" and the fact that after the update it is going to be a very serious machine is not to be neglected.
Last but not least, those 2 pounds you're talking about can be crucial when deciding what to take in your hand luggage when traveling by plane. I've been up to such a decision when I had to take my 2.8kg PC laptop. That's where I guess the name of the computer comes from - Macbook Air, designed for use on an Airplane.
Super Dave
Aug 6, 12:04 AM
P.S. How about seamless MSN/Yahoo! Messenger support in iChat?
I would LOVE if that happened, but there's no evidence of it other than that I daydream about it.
David :cool:
I would LOVE if that happened, but there's no evidence of it other than that I daydream about it.
David :cool:
AtHomeBoy_2000
Aug 5, 05:38 PM
BitTorrent is great if you're using a cable modem or DSL with almost equal upload/download ratios.But I'm using a Satellite..Downloads are great but the uploads are only 256k
Nothing wrong with leaching if you have to ;)
Nothing wrong with leaching if you have to ;)
azzurri000
Sep 18, 11:39 PM
I still think it's funny that everyone thinks these Macbook Pros are "long overdue" - when, exactly, did the FIRST Dell laptop with C2D ship? I thought it was supposed to be around tomorrow...but surely it couldn't have been before last Monday or so at the earliest.
So that's, what? A week behind in the worst case scenario? Oh God...
However - if they waited till November, then yeah, I'd agree that they were overdue...:)
I see your point... I think Merom has been really overhyped, and I can say that I have gotten caught up in it all. There has been so much talk about Merom for so long, that it's almost hard to believe that it's brand new. Perhaps Santa Rosa will be the same later on...
So that's, what? A week behind in the worst case scenario? Oh God...
However - if they waited till November, then yeah, I'd agree that they were overdue...:)
I see your point... I think Merom has been really overhyped, and I can say that I have gotten caught up in it all. There has been so much talk about Merom for so long, that it's almost hard to believe that it's brand new. Perhaps Santa Rosa will be the same later on...
grum
Sep 19, 08:11 AM
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
You may be right to a certain extent, but l i assumed that most people who want a Macbook Pro are going to be using it for intensive stuff - I was under the impressions that Macs are the platform of choice for a lot of graphics professionals etc so the high end line would have a lot of those kind of ppl buying. Granted the difference in speed will probably be fairly minimal, but when you are spending a load of cash on a top-of-the line notebook, why shouldnt you expect to have the latest and greatest technology available? It also seems quite likely they might either make them cheaper, or offer more RAM on the base model etc. so buying now unless you really have to seems foolish.
Im also not sure about your point on the resale value, i would imagine pro users probably would be concerned about which processor it had in it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
You may be right to a certain extent, but l i assumed that most people who want a Macbook Pro are going to be using it for intensive stuff - I was under the impressions that Macs are the platform of choice for a lot of graphics professionals etc so the high end line would have a lot of those kind of ppl buying. Granted the difference in speed will probably be fairly minimal, but when you are spending a load of cash on a top-of-the line notebook, why shouldnt you expect to have the latest and greatest technology available? It also seems quite likely they might either make them cheaper, or offer more RAM on the base model etc. so buying now unless you really have to seems foolish.
Im also not sure about your point on the resale value, i would imagine pro users probably would be concerned about which processor it had in it.
dethmaShine
Apr 6, 10:11 AM
For a programmer dealing with Terminal, Xcode, Netbeans, Eclipse, etc (not graphic intensive softwares), would this macbook air be a better deal than the 13/15" Macbook pro?
Anyone?
Anyone?
Rt&Dzine
Apr 28, 10:19 AM
yg17, I hate to say this but Obama HAD to do this to avoid the entire "birther" issue from turning into a major distraction that ends up wasting everybody's time during the election cycle next year. Heck, it's already wasted everybody's time for the last three years anyway. :rolleyes:
I think you hit the nail on the head. Trump may have made a tactical error by starting the hardcore birther attack too early. But of course he's got more tricks in his bag. He will fire one attack after another to wear down his enemy. It kind of makes me wonder if Trump is a closet Scientologist.
I think you hit the nail on the head. Trump may have made a tactical error by starting the hardcore birther attack too early. But of course he's got more tricks in his bag. He will fire one attack after another to wear down his enemy. It kind of makes me wonder if Trump is a closet Scientologist.
digitalbiker
Aug 25, 08:00 PM
I have .mac now for several years, and I am still wondering why I re-subscribe. Maybe Im lazy. I must be. Don't get it. Need a Gmail invite?????
I'm the same way. I have had .mac since way back when it was "Free for Life" and I just have gotten used to keeping it. I also keep thinking that ole Jobs and company are going to come up with the killer .mac app that will make .mac indespensible.
I'm still waiting...
kate and william royal wedding
Prince William and Kate
kate and william royal wedding
prince william royal wedding
Royal Wedding snub Fergie hurt
kate and william royal wedding
I'm the same way. I have had .mac since way back when it was "Free for Life" and I just have gotten used to keeping it. I also keep thinking that ole Jobs and company are going to come up with the killer .mac app that will make .mac indespensible.
I'm still waiting...
*LTD*
Mar 31, 07:34 PM
Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Mobile/8G4)
So stop whoring out your lame beta OS, Google, and finally have some respect for your product.
Steve Jobs was right all along. All this open baloney falls apart pretty quick when you spread your crap around to anyone and everyone who can slam together a box.
Next on the list: tighter Android Marketplace controls and a fresh round of app rejections.
Then we'll here everyone say "of course, it had to happen, no big deal." Yeah, we ****ing told you like two years ago when it was announced Android would be licensed out to everyone. But for some reason the perennially clueless thought that it would work forever.
In the post-PC era, User Experience reigns supreme. But Apple already taught us that years ago.
So stop whoring out your lame beta OS, Google, and finally have some respect for your product.
Steve Jobs was right all along. All this open baloney falls apart pretty quick when you spread your crap around to anyone and everyone who can slam together a box.
Next on the list: tighter Android Marketplace controls and a fresh round of app rejections.
Then we'll here everyone say "of course, it had to happen, no big deal." Yeah, we ****ing told you like two years ago when it was announced Android would be licensed out to everyone. But for some reason the perennially clueless thought that it would work forever.
In the post-PC era, User Experience reigns supreme. But Apple already taught us that years ago.
Mister Snitch
Mar 31, 02:43 PM
By the end of this thread, it'll be impossible to decipher what the original story was about.
As opposed to YOUR post, which is all about the original story. Right.
As opposed to YOUR post, which is all about the original story. Right.
BC2009
Apr 11, 02:15 PM
I'm in this boat to. I'm noticing my battery life is deteriorating also - never owned an iPhone this long. Also my GF has Verison Droid that just kicks my ass; better reception, faster, cool apps -e.g. voice to SMS. I can wait until July but late fall? IDK.
Are you serious? The Moto Droid (i.e.: the original one) is slower than molasses. You cannot be talking about the original Verizon Droid. That phone under-delivered out the gate. My friend from work whose entire family uses Verizon bought a Motorola Droid and she thought she was getting the equivalent of an iPhone and hated it ever since. She was jumping up and down when Verizon got the iPhone.
Maybe, just maybe, a Verizon Motorola Droid, rooted and with the latest stable version of Gingerbread installed you can get decent performance and responsiveness, but certainly not with an approved Froyo update running on it.
I sure hope you are talking about a newer "Verizon Droid" phone -- some of those are nice, but I still would not trade the Apple user experience for the Android experience -- though I hate having to wait until Sep/Oct.
As a side note, I laughed heartily last night when my sister-in-law asked if I had Angry Birds on my iPhone or iPad because her mom loved that game. Her husband, my wife's brother, who owns a Motorola Droid and a Xoom and is a huge Android enthusiast promptly answered her saying "that Angry Birds is only available on Android". I proceeded to show him the number of "Angry Birds" games available on iOS. Made me realize that Android enthusiasts often don't know that there is something better out there, and yet Apple enthusiasts are called "ignorant, stupid, and sheep". His response was to show me an app he had that could automatically throttle his CPU down to save battery when the phone was not in heavy use. I admitted that I did not have that capability, but that I also did not need it. The moral of the story was, if you want really useful apps and games and fantastic user experience and tight integration with a suite of great (albeit sometimes expensive) products, then you buy Apple. If you want a heterogenous computing environment, your greatest apps to come from Google, and the ability to throttle the clock-speed on your smartphone's CPU, then Android is for you.
I think it is very telling that last week (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9215598/Clorox_cleans_out_BlackBerries_in_favor_of_iPhones_Android_devices?taxonomyId=154&pageNumber=1) when Clorox CIO offered 2000 Clorox employees the option to switch off Blackberry and get an iPhone, Android or Win Phone 7 device on the company's dime to replace their Blackberry device, that 92% of those 2000 employees chose a 10-month-old iPhone 4, with only 6% choosing Android, and 2% choosing WP7. Google would have you believe that people prefer Android. The truth of the matter is that the people who don't care about having a smartphone or not just choose the best "free phone" or BOGO option that the carrier offers -- if that option happens to be Android, then sure Android commands a greater market share of the growing smartphone market. Those customers will never care what their mobile OS is -- they were just looking to get what they could for free (or cheap). Its like asking somebody if they would prefer the Honda or Hyundai -- most would prefer the Honda, but many may settle for the Hyundai if it is cheaper. But when you take cost out of the equation then the story changes. The moral of that story is that Apple needs a cheaper entry point for an iOS smartphone if they want to command market share and especially to put their phones in the hands of more teenagers.
Are you serious? The Moto Droid (i.e.: the original one) is slower than molasses. You cannot be talking about the original Verizon Droid. That phone under-delivered out the gate. My friend from work whose entire family uses Verizon bought a Motorola Droid and she thought she was getting the equivalent of an iPhone and hated it ever since. She was jumping up and down when Verizon got the iPhone.
Maybe, just maybe, a Verizon Motorola Droid, rooted and with the latest stable version of Gingerbread installed you can get decent performance and responsiveness, but certainly not with an approved Froyo update running on it.
I sure hope you are talking about a newer "Verizon Droid" phone -- some of those are nice, but I still would not trade the Apple user experience for the Android experience -- though I hate having to wait until Sep/Oct.
As a side note, I laughed heartily last night when my sister-in-law asked if I had Angry Birds on my iPhone or iPad because her mom loved that game. Her husband, my wife's brother, who owns a Motorola Droid and a Xoom and is a huge Android enthusiast promptly answered her saying "that Angry Birds is only available on Android". I proceeded to show him the number of "Angry Birds" games available on iOS. Made me realize that Android enthusiasts often don't know that there is something better out there, and yet Apple enthusiasts are called "ignorant, stupid, and sheep". His response was to show me an app he had that could automatically throttle his CPU down to save battery when the phone was not in heavy use. I admitted that I did not have that capability, but that I also did not need it. The moral of the story was, if you want really useful apps and games and fantastic user experience and tight integration with a suite of great (albeit sometimes expensive) products, then you buy Apple. If you want a heterogenous computing environment, your greatest apps to come from Google, and the ability to throttle the clock-speed on your smartphone's CPU, then Android is for you.
I think it is very telling that last week (http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9215598/Clorox_cleans_out_BlackBerries_in_favor_of_iPhones_Android_devices?taxonomyId=154&pageNumber=1) when Clorox CIO offered 2000 Clorox employees the option to switch off Blackberry and get an iPhone, Android or Win Phone 7 device on the company's dime to replace their Blackberry device, that 92% of those 2000 employees chose a 10-month-old iPhone 4, with only 6% choosing Android, and 2% choosing WP7. Google would have you believe that people prefer Android. The truth of the matter is that the people who don't care about having a smartphone or not just choose the best "free phone" or BOGO option that the carrier offers -- if that option happens to be Android, then sure Android commands a greater market share of the growing smartphone market. Those customers will never care what their mobile OS is -- they were just looking to get what they could for free (or cheap). Its like asking somebody if they would prefer the Honda or Hyundai -- most would prefer the Honda, but many may settle for the Hyundai if it is cheaper. But when you take cost out of the equation then the story changes. The moral of that story is that Apple needs a cheaper entry point for an iOS smartphone if they want to command market share and especially to put their phones in the hands of more teenagers.
BlizzardBomb
Aug 6, 05:04 PM
One thing has me wondering... What's the default aqua wallpaper of Leopard going to be? :confused: :)
eb6
Sep 19, 09:50 AM
Can't we stop all this Mac on Mac hate and just get along?:)
NATO
Nov 28, 06:58 PM
I believe, correct me if I'm wrong, that microsoft suggested it in the first place to universal.
So they say.... :rolleyes:
So they say.... :rolleyes:
Chundles
Jul 20, 08:20 AM
Why not? Introduction of world's first commercial 8-core system. Live via webstream, with an awesome keynote, and a presentation of Final Cut Pro using all eight cores to maximum effiency with a live render at a geecktacular speed:)
Would be a very long keynote too:
- release date of 10.5 revealed - possibly more stuff revealed
- new software (considerable update to iWork if the rumours are true)
- iMac/MacBook updates
- iPod/iTunes stuff
Would be a very long keynote too:
- release date of 10.5 revealed - possibly more stuff revealed
- new software (considerable update to iWork if the rumours are true)
- iMac/MacBook updates
- iPod/iTunes stuff
63dot
Aug 18, 09:04 AM
Untill the cooling-solution starts to leak fluids, that is ;)?
i will also chime in on this one and say it's not likely to happen
many years before the G5 was liquid cooled, amd tried liquid cooling with some of their mobile processors and found the idea was not practical for reasons not disclosed and, at that time, dropped the project
later on, amd, like others, simply resorted to better designed, cooler chips and that solved overheating
i will also chime in on this one and say it's not likely to happen
many years before the G5 was liquid cooled, amd tried liquid cooling with some of their mobile processors and found the idea was not practical for reasons not disclosed and, at that time, dropped the project
later on, amd, like others, simply resorted to better designed, cooler chips and that solved overheating
appleguy123
Feb 28, 08:19 PM
It matters that you describe it as fornication.
What has this dubious claim to do with anything? :confused:
He's trying to equate in our minds homosexuality, rape, and pedophilia.
What has this dubious claim to do with anything? :confused:
He's trying to equate in our minds homosexuality, rape, and pedophilia.
Multimedia
Jul 24, 05:54 PM
So you don't expect the Mac Pro at WWDC?? Or only a dual core version using Conroe?
I agree single Woodcrest doesn't make sense. So we have two options for Quad core - Dual Woodcrest and single Kentsfield. Of course 2xWodcrest is going to be more expensive but I wonder by how much more. I am guessing $400. But, if you do that, you have the same motherboard across the Mac Pro (and possibly shared with XServe as well) and for that $400 you also get FB-DIMM and higher RAM ceiling. Also, the same platform can be used with Clovertown to scale to 8 core workstation early Q1'07. If Kentsfield is used then 4 core is the end of the line.
So I don't expect Mac Pro to exclusively use Conroe/Kentsfield. Either two different boards - Conroe/Kentsfield on the low end and Woodcrest/Clovertown on the high end. Or Woodcrest/Clovertown across the board. Given the reasons above, I expect it will be the latter.
Conroe deserves to be in the Apple lineup. I expect it will be in the upgraded (perhaps a larger i.e. 23") iMac. Apple may also release another desktop to fill the gap between the Mini and the Pro. That option has been discussed here as well.Not really. Yorkfield is the 8 core follow on to Kentsfield in the Conroe class motherboard. Should be shipping by next Spring.Next Spring??? Can you please point me to the source of that information.
I don't believe Intel can go to 8 core chip before going to a true 4 core instead of 2 dual cores on the MCM. That may have to wait till the process moves to 45nm and they have the Common System Interface worked out i.e. towards the end of 2007. This is all an educated guess on my part ... nothing concrete.It's in the roadmap listed to follow Kentsfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_Microarchitecture).
"Yorkfield, eight-core MCM, 45 nm, 12 MiB L2, successor to Kentsfield"
Since Kentsfield is due Fall I IMAGINED Yorkfield would be ready to roll by Spring 2007. Maybe later? OK maybe later. I have no idea. Just feeling optimistic about Intel's accelerated rollout luck lately.
Well at the very least we will have pairs of Tigertons providing 8 cores by Spring 2007 as a stop-gap on a Woodcrest motherboard. Won't we?
My point wasn't so much exactly when Yorkfield will arrive as much as it was that Kentsfield is not THE END of increasingly more cores on the Conroe front as you had stated as fact.
Anyone else having confusion with all these -field, -town and -ton processor name suffixes? Aparently even the moderators here are. They have mispelled Clovertown in the original news story and post as well as on this forum's web page titles.
I agree single Woodcrest doesn't make sense. So we have two options for Quad core - Dual Woodcrest and single Kentsfield. Of course 2xWodcrest is going to be more expensive but I wonder by how much more. I am guessing $400. But, if you do that, you have the same motherboard across the Mac Pro (and possibly shared with XServe as well) and for that $400 you also get FB-DIMM and higher RAM ceiling. Also, the same platform can be used with Clovertown to scale to 8 core workstation early Q1'07. If Kentsfield is used then 4 core is the end of the line.
So I don't expect Mac Pro to exclusively use Conroe/Kentsfield. Either two different boards - Conroe/Kentsfield on the low end and Woodcrest/Clovertown on the high end. Or Woodcrest/Clovertown across the board. Given the reasons above, I expect it will be the latter.
Conroe deserves to be in the Apple lineup. I expect it will be in the upgraded (perhaps a larger i.e. 23") iMac. Apple may also release another desktop to fill the gap between the Mini and the Pro. That option has been discussed here as well.Not really. Yorkfield is the 8 core follow on to Kentsfield in the Conroe class motherboard. Should be shipping by next Spring.Next Spring??? Can you please point me to the source of that information.
I don't believe Intel can go to 8 core chip before going to a true 4 core instead of 2 dual cores on the MCM. That may have to wait till the process moves to 45nm and they have the Common System Interface worked out i.e. towards the end of 2007. This is all an educated guess on my part ... nothing concrete.It's in the roadmap listed to follow Kentsfield (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_Microarchitecture).
"Yorkfield, eight-core MCM, 45 nm, 12 MiB L2, successor to Kentsfield"
Since Kentsfield is due Fall I IMAGINED Yorkfield would be ready to roll by Spring 2007. Maybe later? OK maybe later. I have no idea. Just feeling optimistic about Intel's accelerated rollout luck lately.
Well at the very least we will have pairs of Tigertons providing 8 cores by Spring 2007 as a stop-gap on a Woodcrest motherboard. Won't we?
My point wasn't so much exactly when Yorkfield will arrive as much as it was that Kentsfield is not THE END of increasingly more cores on the Conroe front as you had stated as fact.
Anyone else having confusion with all these -field, -town and -ton processor name suffixes? Aparently even the moderators here are. They have mispelled Clovertown in the original news story and post as well as on this forum's web page titles.
rezenclowd3
Aug 20, 01:16 PM
The Colin McRae series WAS great. With Dirt, its no longer a wold tour, more random than the last McRae game that was made.
I don't care for the hoppers because when I race, I don't want to sprint. I want 10+ laps. 20-30 is good. Also, when in the friggen hell will qualifying be added back into racing games???? That is half the racing experience. NOT fighting from dead last EVERY FING race! Luckily I get my fix there with the F1: Championship Edition for PS3, which really is a pretty damn good racing AND F1 game.
Oh and with Forza 3, oval is fun, which I refuse to watch in reality. BUT these guys running in the hoppers have MODIFIED their stock cars....ugh...
When I race my electric RC cars, our club has started to go to 7minute races. Still not cooking motors. Laps happens to be about 25 right now in stock timing class. I really think its the number of laps that one can do consistently makes racing more fun, not time overall IMO. Those 7minutes seem to last a VERY long time.
I don't care for the hoppers because when I race, I don't want to sprint. I want 10+ laps. 20-30 is good. Also, when in the friggen hell will qualifying be added back into racing games???? That is half the racing experience. NOT fighting from dead last EVERY FING race! Luckily I get my fix there with the F1: Championship Edition for PS3, which really is a pretty damn good racing AND F1 game.
Oh and with Forza 3, oval is fun, which I refuse to watch in reality. BUT these guys running in the hoppers have MODIFIED their stock cars....ugh...
When I race my electric RC cars, our club has started to go to 7minute races. Still not cooking motors. Laps happens to be about 25 right now in stock timing class. I really think its the number of laps that one can do consistently makes racing more fun, not time overall IMO. Those 7minutes seem to last a VERY long time.
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